Have you investigated Gnostic Christianity?

trevorw2539 wrote:As all the commandments are sourced and adapted from earlier religions, I guess the answer is neither.

Greatest I am wrote:Nicely put.

The rule # 3 should take care of the evil acts you speak of as it asks that we use harm/care as our reciprocal response.

If harm is done to us, we should not reward that harm with good as that rewards evil actions. Harm must be matched with harm so that we can protect ourselves.

As to AronRa, on which commandment is your criticism focused on? Or was yours just an all encompassing criticism?

Regards
DL

Greatest I am wrote:

The source does not speak to the veracity of what is given.

I'm not sure that's entirely true, if the source is widely touted as being an omniscient deity then the fact it's commandments appear to be plagiarised and human in origin is compelling evidence they lack the veracity intended. Personally I don't find the ten commandments very useful at all. The first four are different ways for an alleged deity to demand the saccharine worship of it's created 'pets', and so are nothing to do with morality at all.

Honouring your parents has to be qualified and not absolute, as it is axiomatic that some parents don't deserve to be honoured. Moratoriums on theft and murder are evidenced as ubiquitous in human morality and societies that long predate Abrahamic religions, so hardly suggest the source as divine here. Committing adultery can be immoral I'd say, but humans  are fallible and the idea that it is deserving of being tortured, let alone for eternity after you die, is absurdly 'immoral' IMHO, far more immoral than adultery ironically, since we measure the morality fo an act by the consequences it produces and the relative suffering here of eternally torturing someone as opposed to cheating on them, speaks for itself. Not lying about others is probably as profoundly moral as the ten commandments get, without resorting to the obvious by prohibiting murder and theft, though these have not stopped adherents from doing both of course, throughout a long and bloody history, starting with many such narratives in the bible, and moving on through the crusades, the inquisition, countless wars, the virulent antisemitism of Nazism, not forgetting the appalling slave trade, and all often citing canonical scripture as justification.

The last three are an attempt at thought control, as absurdly pointless as they are immoral. Why shouldn't people covet what ever they choose, we all do this all the time, it is harmless in and of itself and probably part of nature to covet things we see. To quote Matt Dillahunty "Why shouldn't I covet my neighbour's ass, especially if they have a nice ass"?

From Wikipedia

"The Ten Commandments form the basis of Jewish law, stating God's universal and timeless standard of right and wrong"

I find that claim absurd, for the reasons stated. They're not timeless for a start, they're not universal either, many human societies do not view adultery as immoral, nor monogamy as a necessary ingredient of marriage. Most of the commandments have nothing to do with human concepts of right and wrong as I stated above, but are arbitrary religious dogma, derived "allegedly" from divine diktat.

If we are capable of reasoning what is moral and what not we needn't be given moral absolutes (even from a deity) if we are not then we have method of determining what is moral or not anyway, so we would be unable to tell if the ten commandments are moral.

Personally I'm in agreement with Sam Harris "The Moral Landscape", that morality and well being are inextricably linked. Though this is a subjective moral claim it is pretty hard to argue against the idea that best moral systems should maximise emotional and physical well being. One this is agreed we can use reason and empirical evidence to determine how moral actions are.

Oh yes # 3 , a good inclusion you put there, which is quite similar to the early covenant with Noah:

Genesis 9

5 And for your lifeblood I will surely demand an accounting. I will demand an accounting from every animal. And from each human being, too, I will demand an accounting for the life of another human being.

6 Whoever sheds human blood, by humans shall their blood be shed; for in the image of God has God made mankind.

I'm not sure that's entirely true, if the source is widely touted as being an omniscient deity then the fact it's commandments appear to be plagiarised and human in origin is compelling evidence they lack the veracity intended.

Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD wrote:

Oh yes # 3 , a good inclusion you put there, which is quite similar to the early covenant with Noah:

Genesis 9

5 And for your lifeblood I will surely demand an accounting. I will demand an accounting from every animal. And from each human being, too, I will demand an accounting for the life of another human being.

6 Whoever sheds human blood, by humans shall their blood be shed; for in the image of God has God made mankind.

Unless God directly sanctions killing and the shedding of blood of course, which the bible
indicates he does quite often.

Exodus 22

"18 Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live."

Deuteronomy 17

"17:5 Then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman, which have committed that wicked thing, unto thy gates, even that man or that woman, and shalt stone them with stones, till they die.

Deuteronomy 13:

"8 do not yield to them or listen to them. Show them no pity. Do not spare them or shield them. 9 You must certainly put them to death. Your hand must be the first in putting them to death, and then the hands of all the people. 10 Stone them to death,"

There are many many more of course...

Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD wrote:

Unless God directly sanctions killing and the shedding of blood of course, which the bible
indicates he does quite often.

Exodus 22

"18 Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live."

Deuteronomy 17

"17:5 Then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman, which have committed that wicked thing, unto thy gates, even that man or that woman, and shalt stone them with stones, till they die.

Deuteronomy 13:

"8 do not yield to them or listen to them. Show them no pity. Do not spare them or shield them. 9 You must certainly put them to death. Your hand must be the first in putting them to death, and then the hands of all the people. 10 Stone them to death,"

There are many many more of course...

oftenwrong wrote:That phrase "man-made" is what seems to cause us the most trouble.  Who or what "made" man in the first place?  The sheer complexity of the human body defies a glib explanation.

oftenwrong wrote:That phrase "man-made" is what seems to cause us the most trouble.  Who or what "made" man in the first place?  The sheer complexity of the human body defies a glib explanation.